1 I would like to thank Joanna Jurewicz for reading the manuscript and for her Text Society: “Playing with Fire: the pratītyasamutpāda from the Perspective of. The arguments are based on articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: the. Elsewhere Joanna Jurewicz has attempted to show that the choice of terms for the .. „Playing with Fire: Pratītyasamutpāda from the perspective of Vedic.

Author: Kazirr Mazuktilar
Country: Thailand
Language: English (Spanish)
Genre: Travel
Published (Last): 14 March 2008
Pages: 310
PDF File Size: 10.70 Mb
ePub File Size: 6.50 Mb
ISBN: 687-4-67779-832-2
Downloads: 52492
Price: Free* [*Free Regsitration Required]
Uploader: Arashigor

In fact, the good venerable arguably gives more time to expounding on these 4 nidanas than he does the rest of the sequence! But whereas the late Vedic tradition contained a notion of absolute consciousness, the Buddha claimed that there is only consciousness of something: It continues the theme of looking at the way the Buddha drew on the traditions surrounding him, especially the Vedic tradition, of images and concepts frie which to communicate his Insight.

Following a psychological interpretation, the contradictions Gombrich is speculating about do not arise. Apologies for any gire caused on my part.

And, I might add, irony does not weather well. Later, with Dependent Origination, he taught the same subject in more detail.

Although not the standard interpretation in Buddhism, a psychological interpretation of Dependent Origination results in ignorance tainting consciousnessin the same way the Buddha described the five hindrances tainting the mind, jirewicz water tainted with dye, water blown by wind, water overgrown with weeds, water put in a dark place, etc. The khandas in other words are an extension of the Buddha’s use of the fire metaphor.

Jayarava’s Raves: Playing with Fire

Upadana clinging ; The Buddha, of course, was rejecting the idea of the atman and the denial of the atman makes the Vedic cosmogony meaningless. The primary metaphor for consciousness in the Vedic tradition is fire, hence the Buddha framed his understanding of consciousness in similar terms. I’ve made several references over the last year and a half to the Numata lectures by Professor Richard Gombrich in The paper is a not jugewicz to follow: Erich Fauwallner argued long ago that the plaing would logically have started with Tanha, in order to match up with the Four Noble Truths, but starting with the playig bases would work equally well.


The arguments are based on articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

No commentator is infallible, right?

From this reflexivity, in which there is only one entity, develops an awareness of subject and object; this in turn leads to further individuation, until we reach the multiplicity of our experience: First there is nothing, not even existence or non-existence. Following a psychological interpretation, the primary cause of suffering is ignorance.

The 12 links are one of those things with so many varied interpretations, the more context we have the better off we’ll be. Actually, maybe that list was one Mike sourced from somewhere rather than Gombrich’s text – it’s not quite clear.

Gombrich has investigated other aspects of this fire metaphor. Fire was very much part of the religious imagination of India by the time of the Buddha, and Gombrich argues that it is from this source that the Buddha draws for his fire metaphor.

What he means by “on fire” is that we our experience is burning with desire, with hatred, and with spiritual ignorance. In brief, tire argument is that the step chain is the result of pasting together two chains, and that the first four links are a parody of Vedic Cosmogony.

Genesis 1 The Beginning In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Theravada Buddhism Web Directory. As playkng the rest of Gombrich’s speculations, they are based in a reincarnation interpretation of Dependent Origination rather wit a psychological interpretation.

A volitional impulse kama – desire initiates the witg of creation. The Vedic religion was one in which fire played a central role. Thich Nhat Hanh “The uprooting joanns identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees. As Tilt says, such ideas don’t necessarily subtract, they may well enrich how one views the Dhamma. Avijja ignorance ; 2. The purpose of this post was essentially to say that whether Gombrich’s theory is true or not, we’re better off not just clipping off the uoanna four nidanas as some kind of antiquated irrelevancy.


Dependent Origination and the Vedas Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.

Dependent Origination and the Vedas – Dhamma Wheel

Sankhara mental fabrications ; 3. That could be the case, although the way he is defining sankhara sounds more like a definition of cetana to me. For reference, the 12 links are: Since three of these four vedana, samkhara, and vinnana appear elsewhere in the chain under their usual names, this can hardly be correct.

This is one’s right view. I have been re-reading the notes from those lectures and wanted to highlight lecture seven which discussed the use of fire as a metaphor by the Buddha.

Rupa is described as the four great elements and nama as various mental constituents. I’m not qualified to comment on the alleged Vedic parody entailed within the first 4 nidanas, but whether it is so or not, there’s a lot of deep Dhammic content entailed within the first 4, as exhibited through the teachings of venerable Nanananda. In this view clinging would be fuel for becoming, and in my opinion this works much better as an explanation of process.

Doctrines must be tested against experience. Desire, ‘the first seed of the mind’, creates consciousness. But of course that doesn’t mean that we have to discard what we know about the 12 nidana sequence, if anything this perspective should help us have a little deeper understanding of what this particular concept is trying to convey.

Dhamma Wheel

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. It would not be so surprising considering how much Buddhist doctrine is a reworking of preexisting concepts. It emphasises that the Buddhist texts are not divine revelation, they are no infallible and we must be wary of an over literal interpretation of them.

This jurewkcz occured with nama-rupa, it being redefined as mind-matter rather than subject-object.